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Quick Game mode and starting scenarios

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tomiga
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03/01/2019 5:21 pm  

I am thinking about introducing something like the scenarios with which Quick Game mode can be started. The scenarios would differ by the initial situation of the player (the number of cash at the start). An example would be the following scenario.

  1. Hollywood Mogul - the player has 50 million (a very large budget at the start, which allows you to start blockbuster production)
  2. Trom - you have 3 million and you have to start the game by producing cheap budget productions
  3. Save the studio - (you have a small budget and extra credit on the back of the neck - or mega challenge at the beginning)

This is just an example of a few scenarios, if you have any other ideas, let me know about it.

Tomiga


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Harvey Weinstein
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 5
03/01/2019 8:58 pm  

Hi, I just learned about the game last week. Even though this is the type of game I've enjoyed for 15 years, I have never heard of it before. Maybe you could advertise a little more. You could think about Patreon as well? I would like to see this game be more popular for you even though its in a niche market.

I started with career and have only played career because I want a sense of progression and accomplishment in a full length game. I'm not interested in shorter game modes.

The career mode is very unforgiving in difficulty. I can have 200 million dollars after a string of 5 * hits, and then lose everything doing what I have learned over all the hours I've spent learning and reading every tutorial I could find, making just one movie. I can produce a 5* movie with top tier artists, spend 200 million producing and advertising it, and it will only make 50% return even though being #1 at the box office for 2-3 weeks. This is frustrating and not fun. It is is not challenging to play a game that seems to be 50% luck based on an algorithm.

I would really like to see more control over how a movie is made, new features. A new parameter that you over see or decide, to ensure more success in the movie you produce. Deciding what an actor focuses their role on, drama or humor, acting or promotion, doesn't feel like enough.

I have read here that the monetary return of the films you produce includes home video. I would really like to see home video release, possible box art... distribution, pricing. Streaming deals... New income streams for your studio. Focusing on new ideas for gifts... doesn't seem like a step in the right direction.

I would like to see finance partners. A list you can choose from... Even multiple financiers at once. Like Luc besson did to lose everyone hundreds of millions of dollars with Valerian 馃檪 ... Maybe financiers with a reputation system. You lose financier A, 20 million dollars, they probably won't want to work with you again, that would be fun!

I would like to tell you how I play career mode, to give you an idea, any idea, of how to improve the game.

When I start, I select a saved script I know usually gets an A with 2 actors. I will look for an A script in the market with only 1-2 artists. If there isn't one, I wait until the script I'm writing is done and I produce it. With the 3 million starting dollars, after buying a script and an assistant I usually end up with 2.5 million to produce the first movie. 90% of the time its 3 stars ( average) or less. If the first movie doesn't make 700,000+ the first week in the box office, I restart the game. I have done this 5+ times before, otherwise you can wait multiple turns doing nothing but writing more scripts until you get a financier for another 3 million dollar movie. This is why I would like to see better options for financiers, so you have better control of gameplay. Starting with 3 million with a 50% chance of breaking even... it doesn't feel like anything is in your control and it isn't very fun.

The "midgame" is probably the best gameplay wise. The start is hit or miss, you make money or you don't, so you just restart the game. You can't afford anything and you can't really do anything you actually want to do. I also don't like that script/movie types are locked behind prestige.

The midgame you have more income and you're able to create a movie that your imagination takes you to. With 200 turns left, I'm usually making movies for 30 million because any more than that is too much of a financial risk, in my experince its probably a 50% chance you'll even get your money back at movies 50 million +.

I have quit multiple games because of 1 expensive movie that ruined me, 3/4 of the way through.

Honestly, I just realized how great this financier system could be. It could fix so many frustrations while retaining the challenge of the game.


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Harvey Weinstein
(@harvey-weinstein)
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 5
03/01/2019 9:07 pm  

I really do love the game though, its very addicting. I'm excited for your future updates and if there is anything I could do to help you in development I would be glad to know about it!


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tomiga
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Member Admin
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 29
04/01/2019 11:04 am  
Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

I really do love the game though, its very addicting. I'm excited for your future updates and if there is anything I could do to help you in development I would be glad to know about it!

I am really glad that you like the game (even if it is not perfect from your perspective). Concerning how you can help in game creation you can find this in FAQ section.

http://tomiga.linuxpl.info/wp/faq/35-2/?lang=en#15

P.S For your previous long post I will answer later when I will have more time to explain some things in more detailed ways 馃檪

Tomiga


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tomiga
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Member Admin
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 29
04/01/2019 6:47 pm  
Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

Hi, I just learned about the game last week. Even though this is the type of game I've enjoyed for 15 years, I have never heard of it before. Maybe you could advertise a little more. You could think about Patreon as well? I would like to see this game be more popular for you even though its in a niche market.

Yes this is true. Probably game is not as popular as it deserves 馃槈 but there is few reasons behind it.

1. Game is recognizable in Poland (where it was created) as for long time it was purely in Polish (the first part called Biznes Filmowy was added on CD's to few popular game/computer magazines in 00's) . The English translation was created in November 2013 with version 0.8.0 of Movie Business 2.

2. The problem is that game has some ancient look and by this it is hard to persuade somebody to try it. Some of people think that it spread sheet and not the game or some broker application some even think that it is malware... so it is hard to advertise such product for modern audience.

Concerning Patreon. While this is interesting idea I do not want to have any obligation related to Movie Business. This game is created for pure fun with passion in mind as a hobby project when I have free time. Patreon would required some obligation... and the best way to spoil your hobby is try to make money on it.

Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

I started with career and have only played career because I want a sense of progression and accomplishment in a full length game. I'm not interested in shorter game modes.

The career mode is very unforgiving in difficulty. I can have 200 million dollars after a string of 5 * hits, and then lose everything doing what I have learned over all the hours I've spent learning and reading every tutorial I could find, making just one movie. I can produce a 5* movie with top tier artists, spend 200 million producing and advertising it, and it will only make 50% return even though being #1 at the box office for 2-3 weeks. This is frustrating and not fun. It is is not challenging to play a game that seems to be 50% luck based on an algorithm.

That is true what you are writing and exactly that was the intention. Probably you read text Movie Business for Beginners http://tomiga.linuxpl.info/wp/8-2/historia-gry/?lang=en

Where some of the basic assumptions of the game were explained.

Concerning your strategy I have to ask you few questions.

1. Why do you want to created 200 millions movie? Is it really needed? Do you think the more you put into the production the better movie you produce?

I think this is the basic misconception of beginner players... not always more is better. Game allows you create such movies but why it should be successful movie?

2. If you have 200 millions why you want to put all into one horse? If you had real life company would you put whole budget into one production? In history there were some examples of such approach and they ended exactly like you... with bankruptcy...

Game is trying to educate you that you should make diverse strategy. As always something can go wrong... and if you do not have backup than you are fucked up (sorry for bad wording).

The best example you can find in Movie State Box office http://moviestats.tomiga.net/boxoffice.php?region=&gameType=-2&time=9999

Check the player T岷 C么ng who broke the system (because of them I had to limit the max number of studios which player can have). His result in Box Office are incredible and it is only because he use diverse strategies. For example he had 35 studio... so he spend billions of cash for studios itself... and he made not so expensive movies.

3. It is worth to understand dynamics of the game. There are many factors which influence the success and all of them needs to be taken into consideration.

Assuming that you have good script. What else you can influence/ take care before film releasing.

I. Cast - cast is important but does it mean that if you choose proper cast always you succeed? No, what else?

II. Performance - cast needs to perform properly to gain success but does it mean that if you will have the same cast with same performance you will succeeded? No, what else?

III. Timing - if you have the same cast with the same performance will you get the same profits? No, timing is important. Timing can be understand on many levels.

- if cast is optimally selected - by optimally I mean cast parameters and price changes in time you have to think if given price for given creator in given time is optimal - maybe you massively overpay him and can replace given actor with cheaper one just not as popular

- what is the year / month is it good time for specific genre (i.e. horrors are better sold in autumn and romantic comedies in February)

- do you fit with premiere just before the awards and your film will get some of them... they hype will be cumulated

IV. Context - assuming that cast, performance, timing is the same what else makes difference... environment.

How many similar movies is already in the cinemas (if there are too many of action movies audience will distribute among them), how many other films you produced during your film is in box office. If you produce new movie which is good it positively affects your older production (people are curious to see other films of the same producer) if you make some flops it also affect the older production in negative way.

If there are special occasions for cheaper artist (for example older actors prices is deceased as they are not popular among younger generation but they are still very good actors which can bring to your production a lot of quality for relatively small price).

So this is only few examples of relations in Movie Business world. Not all of them are explicit pointed in some news or gossips but they exist and if you carefully check you profits / box office you can discover some of them.

Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

I would really like to see more control over how a movie is made, new features. A new parameter that you over see or decide, to ensure more success in the movie you produce. Deciding what an actor focuses their role on, drama or humor, acting or promotion, doesn't feel like enough.

My philosophy is "less is more". And this is good philosophy 馃槈

I think you do not have any programming or game design background. Adding more features do not make game better. In most cases it is in fact opposite...

The current system is quite deep but first you have to understand it. And I have to admit it is not easy as game not always say it explicit. (Some time it is by design and sometime it is because bad design 馃槈

Instead of 100 features I prefer to have 10 but such which has deep relations between each other. And such is Movie Business there is a lot of dependencies between various elements of the game. Each of mechanics has few reasons to exist in the game universe.

Example of players as T岷 C么ng (he is extrema case but there are also other players who make great profits in the game) shows that current mechanics are enough to have various different successful strategies.

Here is an example of movie created by DurveIsBack which cost over 400 millions of cash including advertisement and it returns with 182%.

http://moviestats.tomiga.net/filmDetails.php?fid=26817

Here is example of player Mar whos film which cost least than 4 millions return by almost 1000%

http://moviestats.tomiga.net/filmDetails.php?fid=29106

I do not think adding tons of parameters will make the game better I think there are more interesting ways of creation of immersion.

Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

I have read here that the monetary return of the films you produce includes home video. I would really like to see home video release, possible box art... distribution, pricing. Streaming deals... New income streams for your studio. Focusing on new ideas for gifts... doesn't seem like a step in the right direction.

Many people asks about such feature but I do not want to have it. This is a game about Movie Production the core is to make movie of your dream which means the concept of the film is the core of the game. That is also the reason that this game is not called the Tycoon. As I really do not like micromanagement and such detailed like distribution, blu-rays or ticket prices are really non of my interest.

You have to ask yourself one important question. Do you want to be artist or accouter?

I also cannot imagine how creatine could be algorithm of releasing films on DVD? You just click check box and it is done... and you want extra profit for this one click?

The reason why I wrote about gifts as new feature maybe somehow interesting. First of all I want to provide some information about game progress during development. To keep players engaged and allows them to learn and understand about new stuff which will appear in the game. Sometime these new features are big and complicated... but it takes a lot of time to prepare them and in such case news would be provided quite seldom. Especially as I official write about some feature when it is almost implemented (80% work done) so I am pretty sure it will be included in next release.

So to provided some fresh news sometimes I decide to write about some small features which in other case would be not noticeable by players.

Gifts were such simple future which pop up in my mind in the morning that day. After few hours implementation was ready. And I was really happy with this feature. Why?

- because it is simple,

- it extends the current functionality (do not introduce nothing new)

- solve some specific problem (you have a tool for fixing relation with creators - which currently is not existing)

- and it makes new usage of existing mechanics giving them new context.

This is perfect example of "less is more" philosophy. Do not create something new... just try to invent something creative with current tools. It less effort and makes the world more real...

Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

I would like to see finance partners. A list you can choose from... Even multiple financiers at once. Like Luc besson did to lose everyone hundreds of millions of dollars with Valerian 馃檪 ... Maybe financiers with a reputation system. You lose financier A, 20 million dollars, they probably won't want to work with you again, that would be fun!

But this is a game where YOU should earn your many to make investment you want. Why you want to spend somebody cash on your fancy idea? This is not how the games works (in general). 馃槈 Just learn it and you will not need any investors. It is not difficult.

In fact game has few investors options but they were designed to allow player get out of troubles due to some bad decision during the beginning of the game.

One of them is Production with investor

http://tomiga.linuxpl.info/wp/pomoc/przebieg-gry/produkcja-filmu/produkcja-z-inwestorem/?lang=en

and the second one Executive producer (which can be used for experiments)

http://tomiga.linuxpl.info/wp/pomoc/przebieg-gry/zakonczenie-rundy/oferty/producent-wykonawczy/?lang=en

Both of them works quite well but they were not designed for purposes you wanted.

Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

I would like to tell you how I play career mode, to give you an idea, any idea, of how to improve the game.

When I start, I select a saved script I know usually gets an A with 2 actors. I will look for an A script in the market with only 1-2 artists. If there isn't one, I wait until the script I'm writing is done and I produce it. With the 3 million starting dollars, after buying a script and an assistant I usually end up with 2.5 million to produce the first movie. 90% of the time its 3 stars ( average) or less. If the first movie doesn't make 700,000+ the first week in the box office, I restart the game. I have done this 5+ times before, otherwise you can wait multiple turns doing nothing but writing more scripts until you get a financier for another 3 million dollar movie. This is why I would like to see better options for financiers, so you have better control of gameplay. Starting with 3 million with a 50% chance of breaking even... it doesn't feel like anything is in your control and it isn't very fun.

The "midgame" is probably the best gameplay wise. The start is hit or miss, you make money or you don't, so you just restart the game. You can't afford anything and you can't really do anything you actually want to do. I also don't like that script/movie types are locked behind prestige.

Your strategy looks fine (apart of restarting games I think it is not needed in most cases as you can get out of trouble if you will be proactive and this getting out can be quite fun - game will help with it by different means.)

But this is not the only strategy. You can start earning cash by:

- writing the scripts (and sell them)

- working as executive producer

- create shortfilms

Many people things that first stage of the game is the most interesting as you need to concentrate and think every move very carefully... when you have already a lot of cash it is becoming too easy... (unless you decide to put whole your cash to one blockbuster 馃槈

If you restart the game in the midgame... it means that you are really making risky strategy... and you should learn that there is something wrong here...

The locking of genres also has some background... but maybe it is already long topic so let's leave it for different discussion 馃槈

Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

The midgame you have more income and you're able to create a movie that your imagination takes you to. With 200 turns left, I'm usually making movies for 30 million because any more than that is too much of a financial risk, in my experince its probably a 50% chance you'll even get your money back at movies 50 million +.

I have quit multiple games because of 1 expensive movie that ruined me, 3/4 of the way through.

Honestly, I just realized how great this financier system could be. It could fix so many frustrations while retaining the challenge of the game.

To say the truth 30 millions it is not so expensive movie. I have shown you few examples the movies which cost few hundreds of millions and they were profitable. But there are lot of stuff which influence it as I wrote above.

In general divers strategy, make different movies and learn various mechanics provided in the game this is the key to success. And be aware that each of the your film can be big success or total flop... you have some influence on this but you are never 100% sure... and this is the power of this game.

Thank you very much for long post and comments and your opinion I hope that my answers will be somehow helpfully. And will encourage you to discover various mechanics of the game.

This post was modified 7 months ago by tomiga

Tomiga


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Harvey Weinstein
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Active Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 5
15/01/2019 5:23 pm  

Sorry, I don't know how to quote but I hope this is readable.

1. Why do you want to created 200 millions movie? Is it really needed? Do you think the more you put into the production the better movie you produce? ---I want to create big box office movies because its exciting. I enjoy playing this way sometimes. In the career game I just finished, I was producing low budget dramas to support a few big budget films, and they all lost money. No, I do not expect more money = better movie. I'm fine with an average result (3 stars), if AT LEAST it makes money. Right now big budget=99% you will lose money. It just doesn't feel fair or exciting.

2. If you have 200 millions why you want to put all into one horse? If you had real life company would you put whole budget into one production? In history there were some examples of such approach and they ended exactly like you... with bankruptcy... ---Every thing in life is about risk/reward. I don't necessarily want to produce 30 million dollar dramas all game just because I know that is the best bet critically and financially in the rules of the game but the reward isn't here for anything else. I haven't put everything into one movie since the first week I played the game. I've had almost 2 billion $ in career mode at one time and I wanted to try a BIG movie. My last game I spent 800 MILLION on The Avengers (cult script) and it made 15% return. I still ended up with my highest score yet and ended the game with 350 million $.

Check the player T岷 C么ng . --Interesting, I've always thought he was a cheater. I don't know how he got an audience that big though, I didn't think it was possible. His big box office results are in classic so I don't know how that affects things.

If the systems that allowed T岷 C么ng to get a 486 963% return rate are still in the game and he didn't cheat I guess I'm just doing something wrong, even though he played 4655:11 and I've played 13652:18.

In regards to more explanation of the deep systems in the game you've explained, According to moviestats, I've played for 200 hours (I don't think thats right) and have never heard of any of that. I think there needs to be a collective guide on one page, with native speakers for translation. Pictures, visual guides. Game guides on Steam would be a good example of this. People will start this game and be intrigued, but very few will spend this much time trying to learn the secrets of the game. Maybe you could give out a few more hints that is concise and well laid out?

Many people asks about such feature but I do not want to have it. 😪 😪

You have to ask yourself one important question. Do you want to be artist or accouter? ---Both!

I also cannot imagine how creatine could be algorithm of releasing films on DVD? You just click check box and it is done... and you want extra profit for this one click? --Yes

That is also the reason that this game is not called the Tycoon. --Tycoons are the best! I would put this game in the tycoon genre, and I found out about the game on a tycoon forum. The Movies is still one of my favorite games. I'm happy with a deep graphical/text game though. I just thought it would be fun to have some more systems/management.

Copyright by Tomiga 1994-2016 --I'm sure you've thought about all of this in 24 years, but I was still excited to talk about it.


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tomiga
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Member Admin
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 29
19/01/2019 10:03 am  
Wys艂any przez: Harvey Weinstein

Sorry, I don't know how to quote but I hope this is readable.

Yes, quoting is not so intuitive as I though. But you can use " icon on the toolbar to unquote part of the message.

1. Why do you want to created 200 millions movie? Is it really needed? Do you think the more you put into the production the better movie you produce?

---I want to create big box office movies because its exciting. I enjoy playing this way sometimes. In the career game I just finished, I was producing low budget dramas to support a few big budget films, and they all lost money. No, I do not expect more money = better movie. I'm fine with an average result (3 stars), if AT LEAST it makes money. Right now big budget=99% you will lose money. It just doesn't feel fair or exciting.

Ok, fair enough. But there is always some limits of money which is reasonable to spend. You have to judge how much is reasonable to spend based on such factors as popularity of actors, genre, advertising potential of your movie, target and so on. There is no one number which tells you that. It is more about intuition.

Please also remember that big profits do not directly depends on your film but also on the environment: how much movies you produced in the meantime as quality of next production influence your current movies in box office.. awards and so on... so not everything you can predict.

2. If you have 200 millions why you want to put all into one horse? If you had real life company would you put whole budget into one production? In history there were some examples of such approach and they ended exactly like you... with bankruptcy...

---Every thing in life is about risk/reward. I don't necessarily want to produce 30 million dollar dramas all game just because I know that is the best bet critically and financially in the rules of the game but the reward isn't here for anything else. I haven't put everything into one movie since the first week I played the game. I've had almost 2 billion $ in career mode at one time and I wanted to try a BIG movie. My last game I spent 800 MILLION on The Avengers (cult script) and it made 15% return. I still ended up with my highest score yet and ended the game with 350 million $.

You can always try 馃槈 and you will see the results... If you look at the list of the most expensive movies of the history you will see following list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_films

Currently the most expensive movie has around 380 mln $ budget. The rest is above 200 mln $. So spending 800 mln $. Is very risky thing (looks that nobody done it yet). Game can allow you to do it... but why you expect to have profits? As you can see game is quite realistic in this aspect. (I do not want to say it is not possible to earn money in Movie Business on movie which will cost 800 mln $. I do not know probably some player will do it... but it is not so easy)

Check the player T岷 C么ng .

--Interesting, I've always thought he was a cheater. I don't know how he got an audience that big though, I didn't think it was possible. His big box office results are in classic so I don't know how that affects things.

If the systems that allowed T岷 C么ng to get a 486 963% return rate are still in the game and he didn't cheat I guess I'm just doing something wrong, even though he played 4655:11 and I've played 13652:18.

If you earn the money and you got profits... than you doing everything ok. But as you can see there are some strategies which can be more effective then yours. And this is beauty of the Movie Business that I have seen things done by players which I have never imagine as a creator of the game. Players surprise me many times with their strategies.

To say the truth after T岷 C么ng achievements I have modified some aspects of the game. v2018.0.3 has some limitation in some aspects) because he very carefully read all the Director's cuts diaries and other hints related to the game (even if they are in Polish he tried to use auto translation feature of google) and based on this hints he were manage to create ludicrous effective strategy.

In regards to more explanation of the deep systems in the game you've explained, According to moviestats, I've played for 200 hours (I don't think thats right) and have never heard of any of that. I think there needs to be a collective guide on one page, with native speakers for translation. Pictures, visual guides. Game guides on Steam would be a good example of this. People will start this game and be intrigued, but very few will spend this much time trying to learn the secrets of the game. Maybe you could give out a few more hints that is concise and well laid out?

The playtime of the game indeed is buggy (probably it calculates start game and end game but including also time between saves ;). So this needs to be fixed finally.

The problem with guide is different story. I think basic information are provided already in the game. The rest you have to read by many pages (there is a help online which covers 75% of the game features) and of course Director's cut

If you want to have guideline which tells you do A and B to have 500 mln profits... do not expect this (at least from my side). I think game provides currently basic introduction to allow make profitable movies.. if you think it is not enough to achieve more - sorry you need to master the game yourself - or ask other player on forum ;).

I have never was a fan providing for the player ready made formulas of success. Firstly because I believe this is not fun way to play game based on ready made tutorial. The second Movie Business was design is such way to allow player great diversity. There are different strategies which you can try probably not all of them will work but finally you will find your own way of playing... but it doesn't mean this is the most optimal way of playing of the game (somebody will prove - like T岷 C么ng - that there is always some better way).

Many people asks about such feature but I do not want to have it. 😪 😪

You have to ask yourself one important question. Do you want to be artist or accouter?

---Both!

I also cannot imagine how creatine could be algorithm of releasing films on DVD? You just click check box and it is done... and you want extra profit for this one click?

--Yes

So I do not like this. I really like depth in the features which I introduce. "Click for profit" do not sounds good... and I have not idea how to make it more deep and fun.

That is also the reason that this game is not called the Tycoon.

--Tycoons are the best! I would put this game in the tycoon genre, and I found out about the game on a tycoon forum. The Movies is still one of my favorite games. I'm happy with a deep graphical/text game though. I just thought it would be fun to have some more systems/management.

Because it is some kind of Tycoon but breaks some rules of the genre... or do not follow a lot of them... sometimes intentionally sometimes not... but as this is pure hobby project and it do not have to be sold I have a lot of creators freedom which allows me try some new things and not to follow "industry standards" which I think are not exciting enough (not always for play but also for coding).

Copyright by Tomiga 1994-2016

--I'm sure you've thought about all of this in 24 years, but I was still excited to talk about it.

It is more about "vision". As I person who creates this game for many years I have faced a lot of questions and problem which had to be solved on many levels of game design. I do not say that I am always right (as during this time game improves a lot in every aspect) and sometimes I also change also my mind 馃槈

This "experience" is sometimes difficult to explain in simple ways especially for player who do not have background on game design (and the say the truth most do not have - people think that every idea they invented is great... and will be fun when it will be implemented - but unfortunately it is not working like that).

Concerning the discussions - I love it. Because every person is different and has different needs and points of view. Even if sometimes my vision of the game is completely different from players opinion and I do not agree for some ideas... something new can raise from such talks (there were few features introduced in the game which was side effect of such discussion with the players - where I didn't agree for something but this inspires me to completely different approach to some aspects of the game) .

So do not worry and hit me with your next ideas, doubts and questions... 馃槈

Tomiga


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